Annnnnd it looks like the comment faerie removed his comment in the Madden post. So now I'd actually prefer having this convo cleared if you don't mind, IMG/Skeevs.
It's never even crossed my mind that the trolls on Deadspin might be reading what we have to say over here. I'm as guilty as anyone of calling them out on this here balog, but that's over now.
Until IMG's post yesterday, I had no idea that the burners were likely an inside job. That's a pretty shitty thing for people to be doing.
I'm sure a few of the burners are actual commenters, but there's no way it's more the 5-10% of burner accounts. In general, the stuff that's being posted isn't funny enough to be ironic or is just plain stupid. Sadly, we're being invaded by actual moronic internet commenters.
Yup, my thoughts exactly. The people who left, for the most part, left because they weren't having fun anymore. That doesn't breed enough bitterness to waste everyone's time trolling Deadspin.
I totally disagree, Echo. There's no way to verify it, but I'd bet that 90+ percent of the burner trolls are Deadspin regulars. I'm not talking about the run-of-the-mill burner derp artists ("here is my oppinione on this importent ishue!"), but the actual ones going around trolling, criticizing articles and comments and shit.
If anyone outside of the Deadspin commentariat cared to do that, they'd have been doing it before Kinja, and for the most part, they weren't. It's not like Kinja was big news in the world of sports media, you know? It's not like a bunch of randos from out there in the world turned on the ten o'clock news, saw Brian Williams announcing the change of commenting format on a relatively obscure sports blog, and were all, "Great! Now I can anonymously shit on the regular commenters and articles that I've been wanting to anonymously shit on for so long!"
No. The trolls are Deadspin commenters. The morons are regular morons, but the trolls are commenters. And they should all fucking die.
To paraphrase Dubai At Night, you are a crazy person.
There just no way it's THAT high a number of regulars trolling. I'm too lazy to go post a bunch of examples, but c'mon, open up any thread and read these stupid comments. They are just too authentic. Like SbV8 said, there's just not enough bitterness to maintain that level of trolling. There's no feedback to it- a DS commenter looking to troll is dying for a reaction, but for the most part, they're not getting any.
Lastly, pre-Kinja, ever go back to a day old post and see the 30 new, terrible pink comments? THOSE people are now free to comment, and they are.
Just noticed you said "troll" burner accounts. I'm sure a higher percentage of trolls are DS regulars, but I still don't think the percentage is anywhere near what you think it is.
I've always figured that the trolling was being done by commenters from other blogs who have been known to dislike us and what we do at Deadspin in the past, or something else along those lines.
I can't imagine that 90% of the burner trolls are regulars, because at this point it seems painfully clear that Kinja is here to stay whether we like it or not.
I'm 100% with Sharting here. There is too much trolling that evinces a knowledge of Deadspin mores to be from outside trolls. Plus, we'd already seen some morons start trolling pre-kinja (mass approvals and such). This is overwhelmingly an inside job.
I don't think I've ever had a sandwich not improved by the presence of pickles and feel fairly strongly that the "pickle planks" already cut into slices for your sandwiches are one of the greatest things ever invented.
Wait... people who have a functioning central cortex buy bread and butter pickles instead of dill? Is the president of the Bread & Butter Pickle Society/National Association For The Advancement of Cousin Marrying holding your loved ones hostage or something?
Pickles overpower all the other flavors in a sandwich. Those planks are okay for a burger occasionally, but I'm not a fan of them in general ON things. A pickle by itself, sure, but they just take over a sandwich.
Dill. I'll occasionally buy a jar of each but it always just verifies I like the dill pickles more.
And I guess I'm just able to appreciate the great flavors still present in the sandwich and see past the irritation of a pickle taste. Sometimes people just get caught up on an irritating flavor and can't see the forest for the trees/sandwich.
It will be gone soon, but take a look at the comment from Joe Gordon on the WFAN post to see why I'm fucking done with Deadspin. The fact that someone like him exists is soul-crushing.
See my note below, Phin. Shitty comments have always been there. We had a starred commenter who did nothing but flaunt her sex life and another longtime starred commenter who called the comment ninja the f-bomb for moving a comment of his. Yes, it sucks. Yes, it will repel people. Yes, we dealt with it before and got past it.
Much truth in your open letter but: There is software running on networks out there that look for selected words. If enough of a pattern starts to appear from a particular site then it's possible for that site to get added to a blacklist that is accessed by firewalls all over the internet. If that happens the entire Gawker universe could be made inaccessible to huge numbers of people. The algorithm needs to evolve quickly and have the ability to at least temporarily quarantine some comments until someone can decide yay or nay and their being displayed.
And here is part of the problem. If I had created, and was in the process of tweaking the algorithm then the more information, or comments, that passed through it, then the more quickly the algorithm could be improved. But what is happening is that comments from the people who have made Deadspin what it is are falling off, and being replaced by, essentially, trolls.
Don't have time to refine or edit this, got to get back to work. Sorry if it sunk to incoherence.
An Open Letter to Uwe Bollocks and Everyone Else...
We are two weeks into Kinja. We have already seen considerable improvement in functionality. I think the trolls ARE COMING FROM INSIDE THE HOUSE, as Sharting suggests above, but whether that's true or not, they will get bored and leave soon. And, I suspect that the Faerie Squadron will be empowered to take more proactive action if they continue to swamp the comment section. There have been some great Kinja-era comments. If you don't want to take part, fine, but you're cutting off your nose to spite your face.
Do you guys remember the last redesign? At this point, it was judged a total failure. And it wasn't just because we temporarily lost hearts and PMs, it was because the talent base disappeared in a total overreaction. What brought them back, as I have said before, was Uwe's retirement speech and Gamboa discovering Shitehawk. I think looking back, we can all agree that the last redesign was a runaway success. And, as much as burners suck, lots of accounts were randomly pre-approved if you were already on twitter or facebook. I know this because I made a gag account once and when he commented (was supposed to be pink to make the joke work) it came out gray. So I tested it again, and voila. So it's not like there was much of a velvet rope to begin with.
So, what's changed? Functionality is slightly different but improving. Check, dealt with that before. It gets better. Approval threshold is too low? Fuck, Lauren_Jo had a star. Nope, the only meaningful thing that has changed is that some very good commenters have taken their ball(s) and gone home. They'll be back, and hopefully sooner rather than later, because that's when this place will feel exactly like it did two weeks ago.
It's not the change of format that is the biggest problem, it's the no audition, any racist, sexist, bigot, jerkwad is free to post their bullshit when all we used to see were jokes. Especially the unstarred folks, who didn't have to deal with pinks, which was actually nice, since I've been on both sides multiple times of seeing them or not.
Of course people would get to learn to live with a redesign eventually, but it's the morons and trolls who are fucking make it not worth trying.
I've largely stayed out of this and given Kinja a fair shake after Craggs decided to be a douche to me on Twitter. My commenting, while sparse, has even gone up in the last two weeks. But now I'm done, too. My two cents:
Recall that at this point in the last redesign, commenting barely even WORKED. Remember "Comment save failed"?
Those problems were obvious, and were fixed. This is not that situation.
IMG, I admire you for being the beacon of positivity in this whole process, but this is far more than an interface change or Burners or trolls being a nuisance. Nick Denton has shown that Gawker, as a whole, doesn't care about building a community. They care about discussions (and whatever weird strategy he has for cashing in on them).
And that's fine - I personally wouldn't hate a sports site that has intelligent conversations in its comments. But we all need to accept that this strategic shift on Gawker's part will drive away the humor and result in a largely new population of people who want to play their game. I don't think the old guard are coming back this time, and I don't blame them - it isn't the same place, and it never will be under this system.
Also, it's the summer. The NFL is off. Baseball is in the dog days. The NBA is paralyzed with Dwight drama. It will come back.
In the meantime, has anyone seen my meds? I could have sworn I gave them to the purple-striped palm tree behind my bed, but he said he hasn't seen them.
The commenter approval process is gone. This is not a functionality issue, like newest story vs. blog view, or comment saved failed. The very basic structure of WHO is allowed to comment is now changed.
These stupid comments (either from new commenters or burners) are not inside jobs. They are comments typical of every other website on the internet that allows open commenting. To some extent we had them before as pink comments, but they were limited because those comments weren't viewable to most DS readers and, more importantly, the commenter himself.
Now some idiot can write whatever he wants, see it on the page, and watch other idiots jump in and reply to him. No amount of dismissal/ignoring it will make these people stop. As soon as one gets bored, some new idiot will come through.
I'm not saying I'm quitting, but I have cut way down on reading the posts/comments and commenting. It is not as much fun as it used to be. And unless there is a drastic uptick in comment moderation, I don't see it improving.
It will never be like it was. There's not going to be a day where we get on and see 10 jokes and, say, 2 terrible garbage comments like we did pre-Kinja. Folks will come back during football season and after they get more used to the system, and we'll have more jokes. But what do you think that will do to the trash? Even when the trolls peter out, the morons will still be there. And don't you think that a few more months of acclimation and very little moderation will only embolden them? No matter who comes back, the ratio of jokes to non-jokes will never get better than it is now.
And that's why, although I'm totally on board with continuing to make jokes and +1, I continue to be vocal about how terrible the burners are. The editors over there read this blog. They read Twitter. And they already know it's bad. But if we all just get a stiff upper lip and pretend everything's cool, there's a 0% chance anything gets done about it. The Faeries/Ninjas need more power, their powers need to be public, burners need to be eliminated. If not, Deadspin might be ok or passable, but it'll never be great again.
Dubai brings up a good point with it being Summer, and I'm pretty sure the last redesign occurred around the same time and all you wonderful people came back (or just [came] for the first time) when it was no longer awesome to be outside doing basically anything but being hunched over a computer.
Also: steps are being taken to deal with burner trolls. I don't know what, but it's in the works. Just cool out, make some jokes and ignore the nonsense--and engage in some interesting discussions if you're so inclined.
Honestly, if I see a burner avatar I treat it like I used to treat pink comment and I don't even read it. I know I sound like the happy-go-lucky-company-man-broken-record-mac, but even though there's a whole different way of going about commenting, it's still always going to be what you make out of it.
The trolls only care about getting a rise out of people and the morons are just morons, (we) commenters are invested and that outlasts making a scene or being stupid.
Thanks, Sean. That's great news. I figured as much but it's nice to get confirmation.
@BH - with all respect (and I mean that sincerely) you're still relatively new. You didn't see all the hysteria that accompanied the last redesign. Shit, commenting used to be by invite only. In the grand scheme of things, this is a much more minor change, and all the others have worked out and improved the site.
Look, guys, I share your concerns. If I didn't think things would improve, I'd probably be done too. But it has always worked out before. Fucking Hume is still murdering it out there. Maybe we just let this thing play out a bit and enjoy jokes from those we all know and love until the ninjas clean burner-house.
Seriously, I am squarely in the "it will be fine" camp (also squarely in the "this move was made for undeclared monetary reasons" camp; that got me the "crazy person" label, but I still think those are reconcilable views).
My biggest concern is not with the burners, but the loss of a hierarchy that encouraged new commenters to keep trying. The goal of getting promotions, then getting a star, kept me coming back until I was invested. Without that, it will be harder to encourage new blood to not get lost in the muck.
My advice is for all of us to increase the use of +1 to replace the now defunct approve/promote/star system. I know your opinions on holding back the +1 to ensure it is truly valued, Sean, but I wonder if they have changed given the new context?
I know. I admit I have zero perspective or context. But if I'm too new, and the old guys are just being hysterical -- I mean, there's room in there for some legitimate pessimism, right?
Like I said, I'm not being critical to vent. I'd just leave. I'm being critical in the hope that somebody helps us get back to what was a great place. It's still good, I'm just spoiled because when I walked into the joint, it was incredible. It sounds like we're getting some help, though, and that's fantastic.
Yeah, I think, funnily enough, the way to combat the trolls is to take the "circle jerking" up a notch. Praise each other more. Kinja obviously values "discussions" so if you see a good joke, pile in that thread and get it moving up. Hell, maybe you could have wholesale MBA discussion in certain threads.
It's been said that part of what Denton is doing is trying to blur the lines between article and comment and author and commenter. I don't see why you can't do that yourselves, too. Sure, have a discussion with the authors of posts, but also you could have MBA-style dissections about the comments (that worked, only) in real time.
I don't know, it's obviously going to be different, but that doesn't mean it by definition has to be worse.
Ray, did you see my "courtsfag" reply to you? It's still on my page but seems to have disappeared from the chat. Just wondering if you dismissed it or if there's some actual comment moderating going on.
The editor(s) seemed to be actively cleaning the chat. Karl tended to respond to questions anywhere between 2-15 times but it was quickly fixed as it happened. They branched out and removed other replies while they were doing that.
Depending on the editor they probably didn't even get your "courtsfag" reference.
Question for future reference: Karl was good in the live chat today, but I had an incredibly difficult time keeping up. Was there an easy way to track responses that I was missing, or did everybody else just do much better of flying through replies that they had already read than I did?
I had trouble getting the replies to load shortly after the post went up. Eventually I said screw it and took lunch. I just finished reading them. He'd do pretty well as a regular commenter. He had some great replies. My favorite was the Glock reply button one.
I'm glad I didn't read it in real-time. Yeah, we get it vast majority of commenters: Your sense of moral outrage is all that matters, to hell with the justice system. Got old fast. A few of the moralists were actually funny, but most were not.
Yes, but when I would flip back to answered, they weren't in any particular order, so I would have to read through every answer every time I refreshed to try to figure out what was new since my last refresh.
Any one else having technical issues? I just had a notification that I had five new replies, but there were only two new items in my inbox, and then when I went back to my inbox, it ended at Saturday. I will take back every positive word I have said about Kinja if ate a +1 of mine (I realize this is unlikely)
Yeah, there were some double (and triple, etc) post issues on the thread. Rominger, in particular, seemed to be afflicted. They were cleaned up and dismissed automatically, though, so you wouldn't see them anymore. I guess they can't change the notification number though.
I think I +1'd you three times, IMG. You were killing it. And I know you feel the same way about me, but you suck at showing affection and my insurance no longer pays for therapy.
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DeleteAnnnnnd it looks like the comment faerie removed his comment in the Madden post. So now I'd actually prefer having this convo cleared if you don't mind, IMG/Skeevs.
DeleteIxnay on the amenays, okay? Deleting it the next time. Saying a trolls name is like saying Candyman. Third time and we all die.
DeleteIt's never even crossed my mind that the trolls on Deadspin might be reading what we have to say over here. I'm as guilty as anyone of calling them out on this here balog, but that's over now.
DeleteUntil IMG's post yesterday, I had no idea that the burners were likely an inside job. That's a pretty shitty thing for people to be doing.
I'm sure a few of the burners are actual commenters, but there's no way it's more the 5-10% of burner accounts. In general, the stuff that's being posted isn't funny enough to be ironic or is just plain stupid. Sadly, we're being invaded by actual moronic internet commenters.
Delete@Echo,
DeleteYup, my thoughts exactly. The people who left, for the most part, left because they weren't having fun anymore. That doesn't breed enough bitterness to waste everyone's time trolling Deadspin.
I totally disagree, Echo. There's no way to verify it, but I'd bet that 90+ percent of the burner trolls are Deadspin regulars. I'm not talking about the run-of-the-mill burner derp artists ("here is my oppinione on this importent ishue!"), but the actual ones going around trolling, criticizing articles and comments and shit.
DeleteIf anyone outside of the Deadspin commentariat cared to do that, they'd have been doing it before Kinja, and for the most part, they weren't. It's not like Kinja was big news in the world of sports media, you know? It's not like a bunch of randos from out there in the world turned on the ten o'clock news, saw Brian Williams announcing the change of commenting format on a relatively obscure sports blog, and were all, "Great! Now I can anonymously shit on the regular commenters and articles that I've been wanting to anonymously shit on for so long!"
No. The trolls are Deadspin commenters. The morons are regular morons, but the trolls are commenters. And they should all fucking die.
To paraphrase Dubai At Night, you are a crazy person.
DeleteThere just no way it's THAT high a number of regulars trolling. I'm too lazy to go post a bunch of examples, but c'mon, open up any thread and read these stupid comments. They are just too authentic. Like SbV8 said, there's just not enough bitterness to maintain that level of trolling. There's no feedback to it- a DS commenter looking to troll is dying for a reaction, but for the most part, they're not getting any.
Lastly, pre-Kinja, ever go back to a day old post and see the 30 new, terrible pink comments? THOSE people are now free to comment, and they are.
Just noticed you said "troll" burner accounts. I'm sure a higher percentage of trolls are DS regulars, but I still don't think the percentage is anywhere near what you think it is.
DeleteIn summary, you are still a DubaiatNight*.
* crazy person
I've always figured that the trolling was being done by commenters from other blogs who have been known to dislike us and what we do at Deadspin in the past, or something else along those lines.
DeleteI can't imagine that 90% of the burner trolls are regulars, because at this point it seems painfully clear that Kinja is here to stay whether we like it or not.
I'm 100% with Sharting here. There is too much trolling that evinces a knowledge of Deadspin mores to be from outside trolls. Plus, we'd already seen some morons start trolling pre-kinja (mass approvals and such). This is overwhelmingly an inside job.
DeleteNah. It's no big deal, just hoping this doesn't become a trend.
ReplyDeleteThanks.
DeleteLet's go be funny.
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ReplyDeleteSo this is what we're doing around here now? Cool.
Delete+1
Delete+1
DeleteI've been gone awhile.
ReplyDeleteDid you turn the comments to "auto-delete" again, Gallego?
Also, please approve my expense report. Graz.
I don't think I've ever had a sandwich not improved by the presence of pickles and feel fairly strongly that the "pickle planks" already cut into slices for your sandwiches are one of the greatest things ever invented.
ReplyDeleteJust try and tell me I'm wrong.
Dill or sweet bread and butter?
DeleteYou're 1000% right. Bread and Butter is my bread and butter, you read me?
DeleteWait... people who have a functioning central cortex buy bread and butter pickles instead of dill? Is the president of the Bread & Butter Pickle Society/National Association For The Advancement of Cousin Marrying holding your loved ones hostage or something?
DeleteFact: 99.4% of the burner trolls on Deadspin are actually bread and butter pickles.
DeleteNo, all my cousins are safe with me in my home, thank you, which is a barrel I've enthusiastically pushed over Victoria Falls.
DeleteI wouldn't eat a dill pickle if Kate Upton was wearing it as a bra.
Pickles overpower all the other flavors in a sandwich. Those planks are okay for a burger occasionally, but I'm not a fan of them in general ON things. A pickle by itself, sure, but they just take over a sandwich.
DeleteDill. I'll occasionally buy a jar of each but it always just verifies I like the dill pickles more.
DeleteAnd I guess I'm just able to appreciate the great flavors still present in the sandwich and see past the irritation of a pickle taste. Sometimes people just get caught up on an irritating flavor and can't see the forest for the trees/sandwich.
It will be gone soon, but take a look at the comment from Joe Gordon on the WFAN post to see why I'm fucking done with Deadspin. The fact that someone like him exists is soul-crushing.
ReplyDeleteYou will be back. Stop costing yourself credibility by doing all these dramatic retirements.
DeleteOooooooff[t]
@ IMG
DeleteEven you have to admit that that's bullshit and will start driving people away.
See my note below, Phin. Shitty comments have always been there. We had a starred commenter who did nothing but flaunt her sex life and another longtime starred commenter who called the comment ninja the f-bomb for moving a comment of his. Yes, it sucks. Yes, it will repel people. Yes, we dealt with it before and got past it.
Delete@ IMG
DeleteMuch truth in your open letter but: There is software running on networks out there that look for selected words. If enough of a pattern starts to appear from a particular site then it's possible for that site to get added to a blacklist that is accessed by firewalls all over the internet. If that happens the entire Gawker universe could be made inaccessible to huge numbers of people. The algorithm needs to evolve quickly and have the ability to at least temporarily quarantine some comments until someone can decide yay or nay and their being displayed.
And here is part of the problem. If I had created, and was in the process of tweaking the algorithm then the more information, or comments, that passed through it, then the more quickly the algorithm could be improved. But what is happening is that comments from the people who have made Deadspin what it is are falling off, and being replaced by, essentially, trolls.
Don't have time to refine or edit this, got to get back to work. Sorry if it sunk to incoherence.
An Open Letter to Uwe Bollocks and Everyone Else...
ReplyDeleteWe are two weeks into Kinja. We have already seen considerable improvement in functionality. I think the trolls ARE COMING FROM INSIDE THE HOUSE, as Sharting suggests above, but whether that's true or not, they will get bored and leave soon. And, I suspect that the Faerie Squadron will be empowered to take more proactive action if they continue to swamp the comment section. There have been some great Kinja-era comments. If you don't want to take part, fine, but you're cutting off your nose to spite your face.
Do you guys remember the last redesign? At this point, it was judged a total failure. And it wasn't just because we temporarily lost hearts and PMs, it was because the talent base disappeared in a total overreaction. What brought them back, as I have said before, was Uwe's retirement speech and Gamboa discovering Shitehawk. I think looking back, we can all agree that the last redesign was a runaway success. And, as much as burners suck, lots of accounts were randomly pre-approved if you were already on twitter or facebook. I know this because I made a gag account once and when he commented (was supposed to be pink to make the joke work) it came out gray. So I tested it again, and voila. So it's not like there was much of a velvet rope to begin with.
So, what's changed? Functionality is slightly different but improving. Check, dealt with that before. It gets better. Approval threshold is too low? Fuck, Lauren_Jo had a star. Nope, the only meaningful thing that has changed is that some very good commenters have taken their ball(s) and gone home. They'll be back, and hopefully sooner rather than later, because that's when this place will feel exactly like it did two weeks ago.
It's not the change of format that is the biggest problem, it's the no audition, any racist, sexist, bigot, jerkwad is free to post their bullshit when all we used to see were jokes. Especially the unstarred folks, who didn't have to deal with pinks, which was actually nice, since I've been on both sides multiple times of seeing them or not.
DeleteOf course people would get to learn to live with a redesign eventually, but it's the morons and trolls who are fucking make it not worth trying.
I've largely stayed out of this and given Kinja a fair shake after Craggs decided to be a douche to me on Twitter. My commenting, while sparse, has even gone up in the last two weeks. But now I'm done, too. My two cents:
DeleteRecall that at this point in the last redesign, commenting barely even WORKED. Remember "Comment save failed"?
Those problems were obvious, and were fixed. This is not that situation.
IMG, I admire you for being the beacon of positivity in this whole process, but this is far more than an interface change or Burners or trolls being a nuisance. Nick Denton has shown that Gawker, as a whole, doesn't care about building a community. They care about discussions (and whatever weird strategy he has for cashing in on them).
And that's fine - I personally wouldn't hate a sports site that has intelligent conversations in its comments. But we all need to accept that this strategic shift on Gawker's part will drive away the humor and result in a largely new population of people who want to play their game. I don't think the old guard are coming back this time, and I don't blame them - it isn't the same place, and it never will be under this system.
Loved your Brazzers PS, btw. No joke, that was funny.
DeleteI think, at this point we know that there is only one way to survive.
DeleteAlso, it's the summer. The NFL is off. Baseball is in the dog days. The NBA is paralyzed with Dwight drama. It will come back.
In the meantime, has anyone seen my meds? I could have sworn I gave them to the purple-striped palm tree behind my bed, but he said he hasn't seen them.
Sorry IMG, but you're way off.
DeleteThe commenter approval process is gone. This is not a functionality issue, like newest story vs. blog view, or comment saved failed. The very basic structure of WHO is allowed to comment is now changed.
These stupid comments (either from new commenters or burners) are not inside jobs. They are comments typical of every other website on the internet that allows open commenting. To some extent we had them before as pink comments, but they were limited because those comments weren't viewable to most DS readers and, more importantly, the commenter himself.
Now some idiot can write whatever he wants, see it on the page, and watch other idiots jump in and reply to him. No amount of dismissal/ignoring it will make these people stop. As soon as one gets bored, some new idiot will come through.
I'm not saying I'm quitting, but I have cut way down on reading the posts/comments and commenting. It is not as much fun as it used to be. And unless there is a drastic uptick in comment moderation, I don't see it improving.
It will never be like it was. There's not going to be a day where we get on and see 10 jokes and, say, 2 terrible garbage comments like we did pre-Kinja. Folks will come back during football season and after they get more used to the system, and we'll have more jokes. But what do you think that will do to the trash? Even when the trolls peter out, the morons will still be there. And don't you think that a few more months of acclimation and very little moderation will only embolden them? No matter who comes back, the ratio of jokes to non-jokes will never get better than it is now.
DeleteAnd that's why, although I'm totally on board with continuing to make jokes and +1, I continue to be vocal about how terrible the burners are. The editors over there read this blog. They read Twitter. And they already know it's bad. But if we all just get a stiff upper lip and pretend everything's cool, there's a 0% chance anything gets done about it. The Faeries/Ninjas need more power, their powers need to be public, burners need to be eliminated. If not, Deadspin might be ok or passable, but it'll never be great again.
Dubai brings up a good point with it being Summer, and I'm pretty sure the last redesign occurred around the same time and all you wonderful people came back (or just [came] for the first time) when it was no longer awesome to be outside doing basically anything but being hunched over a computer.
DeleteAlso: steps are being taken to deal with burner trolls. I don't know what, but it's in the works. Just cool out, make some jokes and ignore the nonsense--and engage in some interesting discussions if you're so inclined.
Honestly, if I see a burner avatar I treat it like I used to treat pink comment and I don't even read it. I know I sound like the happy-go-lucky-company-man-broken-record-mac, but even though there's a whole different way of going about commenting, it's still always going to be what you make out of it.
The trolls only care about getting a rise out of people and the morons are just morons, (we) commenters are invested and that outlasts making a scene or being stupid.
Thanks, Sean. That's great news. I figured as much but it's nice to get confirmation.
Delete@BH - with all respect (and I mean that sincerely) you're still relatively new. You didn't see all the hysteria that accompanied the last redesign. Shit, commenting used to be by invite only. In the grand scheme of things, this is a much more minor change, and all the others have worked out and improved the site.
Look, guys, I share your concerns. If I didn't think things would improve, I'd probably be done too. But it has always worked out before. Fucking Hume is still murdering it out there. Maybe we just let this thing play out a bit and enjoy jokes from those we all know and love until the ninjas clean burner-house.
Dubai brings up a good point
DeleteIt happened! It finally happened!
Seriously, I am squarely in the "it will be fine" camp (also squarely in the "this move was made for undeclared monetary reasons" camp; that got me the "crazy person" label, but I still think those are reconcilable views).
My biggest concern is not with the burners, but the loss of a hierarchy that encouraged new commenters to keep trying. The goal of getting promotions, then getting a star, kept me coming back until I was invested. Without that, it will be harder to encourage new blood to not get lost in the muck.
My advice is for all of us to increase the use of +1 to replace the now defunct approve/promote/star system. I know your opinions on holding back the +1 to ensure it is truly valued, Sean, but I wonder if they have changed given the new context?
@IMG
DeleteI know. I admit I have zero perspective or context. But if I'm too new, and the old guys are just being hysterical -- I mean, there's room in there for some legitimate pessimism, right?
Like I said, I'm not being critical to vent. I'd just leave. I'm being critical in the hope that somebody helps us get back to what was a great place. It's still good, I'm just spoiled because when I walked into the joint, it was incredible. It sounds like we're getting some help, though, and that's fantastic.
Yeah, I think, funnily enough, the way to combat the trolls is to take the "circle jerking" up a notch. Praise each other more. Kinja obviously values "discussions" so if you see a good joke, pile in that thread and get it moving up. Hell, maybe you could have wholesale MBA discussion in certain threads.
DeleteIt's been said that part of what Denton is doing is trying to blur the lines between article and comment and author and commenter. I don't see why you can't do that yourselves, too. Sure, have a discussion with the authors of posts, but also you could have MBA-style dissections about the comments (that worked, only) in real time.
I don't know, it's obviously going to be different, but that doesn't mean it by definition has to be worse.
There are joke-friendly posts galore out there today. The steak post, the streaker post, the Berman post all were all begging for our attention.
ReplyDeleteLet's stop feeling sorry for ourselves and go make some funny.
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ReplyDeleteWhy was my comment removed? Now I'm really confused.
DeleteRay, did you see my "courtsfag" reply to you? It's still on my page but seems to have disappeared from the chat. Just wondering if you dismissed it or if there's some actual comment moderating going on.
DeleteFor everyone else: yes, it was fucking hilarious.
I saw the reply, and I definitely did not dismiss it -- I thought it was great. But now I don't see it, so I think someone deleted it.
DeleteAnd for the record, I actually got Sandusky's attorney to walk right into a child sex abuse joke.
The editor(s) seemed to be actively cleaning the chat. Karl tended to respond to questions anywhere between 2-15 times but it was quickly fixed as it happened. They branched out and removed other replies while they were doing that.
DeleteDepending on the editor they probably didn't even get your "courtsfag" reference.
I also asked him a this serious question, with a very slight dig at the end:
DeleteAre you ever relieved when a client you're defending - who you know is guilty - is found guilty? Or are you pissed you lost?
Also, why do you spell Karl the stupid way?
Which also seems to have been removed. It seemed like the guy had a pretty good sense of humor, I'm surprised that got axed.
That comment's actually still there. It just wasn't answered.
DeleteCarry on then.
DeleteQuestion for future reference: Karl was good in the live chat today, but I had an incredibly difficult time keeping up. Was there an easy way to track responses that I was missing, or did everybody else just do much better of flying through replies that they had already read than I did?
ReplyDeleteI had trouble getting the replies to load shortly after the post went up. Eventually I said screw it and took lunch. I just finished reading them. He'd do pretty well as a regular commenter. He had some great replies. My favorite was the Glock reply button one.
DeleteI'm glad I didn't read it in real-time. Yeah, we get it vast majority of commenters: Your sense of moral outrage is all that matters, to hell with the justice system. Got old fast. A few of the moralists were actually funny, but most were not.
Did you not see the button where you could only look at answered or unanswered questions?
DeleteYes, but when I would flip back to answered, they weren't in any particular order, so I would have to read through every answer every time I refreshed to try to figure out what was new since my last refresh.
DeleteOh, I didn't realize that because I gave up after the first couple minutes.
DeleteAny one else having technical issues? I just had a notification that I had five new replies, but there were only two new items in my inbox, and then when I went back to my inbox, it ended at Saturday. I will take back every positive word I have said about Kinja if ate a +1 of mine (I realize this is unlikely)
ReplyDeleteYeah, there were some double (and triple, etc) post issues on the thread. Rominger, in particular, seemed to be afflicted. They were cleaned up and dismissed automatically, though, so you wouldn't see them anymore. I guess they can't change the notification number though.
Delete+1
DeleteI think I +1'd you three times, IMG. You were killing it. And I know you feel the same way about me, but you suck at showing affection and my insurance no longer pays for therapy.
DeleteOh yeah, big time tech issues over here. Not a single one of you guys' +1s came through this afternoon! Can you imagine? KINJAAAA!
DeleteI have +1blocker v.2.2 installed. Don't need a head that's any more swollen.
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DeleteHAHAHA...69 COMMENTS!!!!
ReplyDeleteMBA's Tuesday roundup is up.
ReplyDeletehttp://deadspin.com/5925007/mlbs-plan-to-drain-every-last-ounce-of-fun-from-the-home-run-derby-takes-shape?comment=50832971
ReplyDeleteIt's been real, deadspin