Friday, August 24, 2012

MKMOT (August 24, 2012)

I'm going to hazard a guess that you fellows (and gals!) might be interested in some calm, insightful discussion about the upcoming Kinja changes. Since Marv is busy polishing his Little League "Participant" trophy* again, I'll open it up. Don't fight the tide, come along for the ride, won't you?



*knob

81 comments:

  1. For the number of people that have asked, I am not Marv Skeevy. It's hard to prove a negative, but I'm not.

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    1. RMJ=H meet the Streisand effect. Streisand effect, RMJ=H.

      Delete
    2. You are not Marv Skeevy. Not even close. You're not even part of the CJ squadron.

      This is the last time I will confirm or deny such a thing, since there are only about 4 other logical candidates.

      Delete
    3. That came across as slightly "elitist".

      Which isn't surprising, since you're a dirty LIBERAL!!1!!@!

      Delete
  2. Amazing, the new format is worse. It's the Skip Bittman (completely sleazy incompetence) to the prior state of affairs, best characterized as Bobby Bittman (marginally competent but completely sleazy).

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  3. So we're learning in class today about how the pharmaceutical companies shipped HIV/hepatitis infected hemophiliac-treating blood factors overseas once they couldn't sell them in the US anymore. Basically they had invested enough money in a disastrous product that they searched for shortcuts to use it rather than just recall the entire thing and eat the financial loss.

    I'm not sure anyone here is going to understand the Kinja parallel I'm so tempted to draw.

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  4. The avatars were too busy on the page, so here's every comment all in one spot to clear things up.

    Also, we're covering shootings now (though since removed but still on the sidebar).

    Remember when Deadspin was fun?

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    Replies
    1. The shooting was a Gawker crosspost.

      Delete
    2. @Guy Who. Yeah, you up top. That's the happiest I've been after clicking on a link on tha balog.

      Delete
  5. Jesus. I am trying to stay calm. I have already emptied my bottle of Xanax.

    Change is frightening, but can be good. Change is frightening, but can be good. Change is frightening, but can be good. Change is frightening, but can be good. Change is frightening, but can be good. Change is frightening, but can be good. Change is frightening, but can be good. Change is frightening, but can be good. Change is frightening, but can be good. Change is frightening, but can be good. Change is frightening, but can be good. Change is frightening, but can be good. Change is frightening, but can be good. Change is frightening, but can be good. Change is frightening, but can be good. Change is frightening, but can be good. Change is frightening, but can be good.

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    Replies
    1. Jesus, for the last time, just put on a new pair of underwear. You shouldn't need to psych yourself up to do it.

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  6. Tentative thoughts: I like the changes. The column view is a big adjustment, but it makes scanning comments far easier. I still don't at all trust the algorithm--more on that in a minute--but at least I don't have to click on a ton of avatars just to get to content. It makes it more likely I'm going to see jokes, and it gives incentive to people to make jokes since there's a lot better chance those jokes will be seen now.

    BoC posted the other day that he doesn't even bother looking through the comments anymore, and will only click on the avatars of people he knows will make good jokes. Since that effectively prohibited anything I post being viewed by BoC and others who adopt the same philosophy, that's a bad thing. This change will make comments more visible for all, and that's a good thing.

    OK, the algorithm. The other day, taco_mailman posted a joke in the Bartolo Colon suspension thread that was initially pretty far down in the list (my far worse joke was above his). I +1'd it, which moved it up to something like 3 in the list. After receiving another reply, the comment plummeted to 10 or so, and none of those comments were newer than his. That doesn't make much sense. The algorithm may still bury good comments, but I'm far more likely to see them now.

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    1. Couldn't disagree more. If your avatar wasn't in the "must-see" list for Bevraj, it was at least for me. I clicked basically every avatar I recognized from being starred and funny under the old system. That was still only like 5-6 clicks on average. And most of the time, they were all at the beginning of the line. It was inferior, but I was getting used to it. 2 minutes to catch up on a post, tops, if I'm +1ing or if StF left a wordy one.

      Now, the algorithm seems even less inclined to put the funny guys at the top. And instead of scanning a neat, uniform row of recognizable avatars for the guys I want to read, I have to scroll down a seriously long page of comments with no uniformity at all. Hard on the eyes, hard to locate avatars, hard to read. Tons more time wasted.

      View all was good before we had tons of burners and an emphasis on multiple columns, for whatever reason. Not sure it works now.

      Delete
    2. @RAC

      I definitely read your comments. I tried to read comments of all those I recognized. I just avoided the burners for fear of getting some sort of ailment, like eye cancer. To be honest, I really don't understand this new layout at all. What's the difference between this and the old layout other than it looking like a a staggered, side-by-side clusterfuck? You know, other than the commentariat being littered with shit and there possibly being some sort of comment promoting algorithm which doesn't seem to work. The only saving grace of KINJA!1!! for me was being able to avoid the trash and quickly view comments from the Guys Who I knew were making the effort to be funny. Anywho, I'm off to craft a dick joke. It'll be between IEATMYOWNPOOP's comment and an ad for Clear Men Scalp Therapy.

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    3. Awwww shucks, guys. Rest assured, I'd engage my robotic expressEmotion_BlushSkin() subroutine if I had one. Ironically, it was the poor programming of my mimicHumanity(invokeSelfDepreciation) routine that led to your replies. I'm calling on a Guy Who Can Program Things Well to remedy this error. Kinja designers need not reply.

      What I was clumsily trying to get to is that I agree with BoC that Kinja makes it harder to see comments by new guys. I could be wrong, but the one huge difference in the format to me is no more stupid clicking on avatars. I'd agree it's currently a side-by-side clusterfuck, and I hate the animation, but I'm hoping I either (1) get used to it, or (2) it's tweaked to be better.

      There's definitely more trolls and terrible comments now, but if someone's out there making good comments, I was probably missing it in the old format. In this new format, I might at least see it. Like Mangini in a Bottle said, getting a promotion or reply when you're a new guy was nice validation, and it's pretty clear that a lot of us weren't bothering to see if anyone new was bringing good stuff. I know me, Universal Enveloping Algebra, Pink Slime, the reincarnation of Can I Borrow A Feeling, Obscure Simpsons Reference, and some others I'm sure I'm forgetting right now were all starred pretty close to the end of the old commenting regime. If I had started later and knew that no one was going to bother reading, I probably would have given up. I could be way off, but I think people who want to make some jokes are more likely to try now.


      Delete
    4. @BoC

      YOU CAN GET EYE CANCER FROM READING THAT STUFF? And here I was thinking the only side effects were nausea and despair.

      @RAC

      As far as the old system went and considering my lack of talent for the written funny there were sufficient folks who read and promoted comments from new people. I received enough encouragement to keep trying without getting the idea that I had it all figured out. And it was right to be that way.

      @BronzeHammer made a point the other day about how Kinja was actually more polarizing because it was evolving into a complete separation of the old guard and the new commenters, however loose that term may now be. There was the occasional random anomaly but that was pretty much where things were headed. This new version, so far, seems to just put everything in a bucket and fling it against the wall. I'm sure we'll see tweaks and such over the next few weeks and hopefully someone will realize how much better a single column would be.

      As far as I can see it the only way for Kinja to do what it is supposed to do is for people to get involved. Someone has to decide that a particular comment, from someone with no track record, really is worthy of being prominently placed. There is no way a computer program can do this. There are some good comments from burners and new folks. The problem is that they are hidden by so very much crap that most folks just aren't going to take the time to find out.

      Delete
  7. If they could make it so that the comments with the most replies and from the best commenters would float to the top of the columns, this wouldn't be a bad system.

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    Replies
    1. Right, because yours would always sink to the bottom. That woudn't be bad at all.

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    2. We all float down here*, Raysism!

      *in Kinja

      Delete
  8. Sorry for not being Kinja-related, but if you're wondering who might be one of the Guy Whos around here, stickinandmovin would be my guess.

    I saw someone said this on yesterday's open thread, but it wasn't me. As I recall, he was a decently funny unstarred guy for a while, and then disappeared. Now, when he pops up, it's totally unintelligible long form DUAN stuff and if you look at his comment history, some weirdly aggressive trolling at Gawker.

    The Pete Gaines and "too selective" stuff stuck out at me as typical bullshit whiner Guy Who crap.

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    1. There are plenty of Guy Whos who aren't malicious and bring a lot of funny. Let's not rope them into that circle of hell that a couple or few disgruntled dickheads have created.

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    2. He doesn't appear to understand that stars were lost by people who weren't selective enough.

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    3. Sorry about that. I didn't mean to besmirch the good name of happy, productive and funny Guy Whos around here.

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    4. More importantly, I could care less who the Guy Who's are. I think the one comment yesterday about you being neither bronze or a hammer was the first time I've ever remotely enjoyed something they added to a discussion.

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    5. I don't care who the funny ones are (I guess I've giggled a few more times than you have, although I did like that one from yesterday too), because they're funny. I do care a little bit who the angry ones are, because if they're guys I don't care about/like, then they should know that they're irrelevant. If they're guys I do care about/like, then maybe I should reevaluate that situation.

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    6. I barely even read them. If someone puts their name to it, I'll read what they have to say. But if there's someone making coherent, thoughtful arguments or jokes within the Guy Who ranks, they should know that the quality of the majority of the Guy Who posts leads some (I'm assuming more than just me), to stop reading as soon as you see that "identifier".

      Want to comment without the expectations from your previous commenting handle? Come up with a new one, use it consistently, and let your new body of work speak for itself.

      Delete
    7. Personally, I'd like it if the Guy Whos would create real names for themselves as well. Some of their (his? hers? its?) stuff is funny, so I'd like to see behind the curtain, a-la Dorothy.

      Delete
    8. I wouldn't mind that either, both because I like some of the Guy Who stuff AND because getting behind the curtain gives me roughly a 30-40 percent chance to see some surprise peepee or hooha. And really, that's the best kind of peepee/hooha.

      Delete
    9. All I'm saying is, I'd like to see your peepee and/or hooha. (Both??????!!!!!)

      Delete
    10. Guy Who Has A Sense Of HumorAugust 24, 2012 at 1:15 PM

      Not you, StF. You're one of the good ones. And you, Bronzy. And you, Erg. And you, Freeman. Am I forgetting anyone? Nope. Doesn't look like it.

      Delete
    11. @ SBV8:

      Couldn't disagree more. Sure, there are some Guys Who who are just idiots, just like there are several DS commenters who are idiots. I find many of them funny. More to the point, I think the Guy Who format allows for a different kind of joke to be made, and if you tried to shoehorn in your actual username the joke wouldn't work.

      Take for example the vignette from the other day about the Guy Who was going on the date with the Girl Who ended up with the Affliction guy. That's a completely different joke format that couldn't be made with the "standard username" account.

      For me, I see Guys who as another format, like a re-contexualization joke, or a dialogue joke.

      Delete
    12. @Echo,

      I suppose I'm glad someone's enjoying it then. But I've never been able to get past my initial impression of the Guy Who accounts as beginning as just an annonymous trolling. I could very well be missing some decent stuff in there (for instance, I have no idea what guy who/girl who/affliction joke you're referencing), but I guess I've stopped giving those accounts a chance after reading a certain amount of junk (pretty much the same approach I take to burners).

      I'll go back to just ignoring them and those who enjoy them and continue to do so.

      Delete
    13. Fair enough.

      Meanwhile, I'm just going to go back to what I usually do, buying billboards in the general Tampa region that say "RAYSISM SUX BALLZ!!"

      Delete
    14. Wait, you're buying those, too?

      Delete
    15. @Echo:

      I meant to say "I'll go back to just ignoring them and those who enjoy them CAN continue to do so."

      Which is far less of a dickish thing to say than what I accidentally typed up above.

      Delete
  9. I HAVEN'T SEEN EXTRA COLUMNS SUPPORT SOMETHING SO BLOATED SINCE JASON WHITLOCK'S DORIC STYLE BUNK BED!!1!!1!

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  10. One huge gripe with the redesign: I think it produces eye strain. There's no bar separating the columns, and everything is a wall of text with no visual relief. Am I the only one struggling to read the comments?

    Blogspot isn't great, but at least there's a pretty clear delineation between comments with the large horizontal bar. Every comment on Deadspin runs together now, and the horizontal bar the site uses is barely visible. I wish the comments were alternatively shaded (light gray with black text would be just fine).

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  11. So, if you're not a follower of Joe Posnanski, you should be. Forget the Paterno mess, he's a fine baseball writer. And he writes stuff like this:

    2. Rays
    Actual record: 69-55
    WAR record: 68-56
    Determination: Playing about to their ability.

    Somehow, that is just really funny to me.

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  12. I haven't had time to comment today on Deadspin, and therefore can't speak to the functionality, but I will say:

    This change turns the comment section into the least aesthetically pleasing thing I've ever seen. Nothing lines up.

    Extremely visually jarring.

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    1. You're right. It's an absolute mess. I think where it hurt most (and I'm not a guy who does these) is the long-form answers/ dialogues. Sorry if this was said already.

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    2. Guy who does not get itAugust 24, 2012 at 2:22 PM

      I just don't get it. What was so wrong with the functional site?

      Delete
    3. I don't know. I like the really long comments that go on and on with about six words per sentence. It only makes me want to stab my eyes a little bit.

      Delete
    4. Go look at the "Why Your Team Sucks: Dolphins". Long form stuff looks terrible.

      It looks like all they did was change it from the old chronological format [sigh], where you had to click to see replies, to a chronological side by side format, where you have to click to see replies.

      Except now you have to click back to see the rest of the comments again. And they added unapproved idiots and burners. Progress?

      Delete
  13. Funny you mentioned the wording of my joke in the Paralympic thread, RMJ. I knew there was a much better way to word it, but I kind of rushed it because I had to do something for work.

    Also, I have no idea how a +1 would be plotted on graph paper. I assume it would go straight up on the Y-axis as opposed to horizontally, because going up on the queue would be analogous to rising up the column...Kinja!

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  14. Guys: It sucks, but I'm done bitching. You can make jokes or not make jokes (I hope everyone does the former), but I'm going to make jokes.

    C'est la vie.

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  15. Kinja is starting to feel the retarded guy who joins the game of pickup basketball. At first you're like, OK we'll play along. I'll show everyone how tolerant and kind-hearted I am. Then the retarded guy starts shooting every single time he gets the ball and you're like, OK this is awkward, but I'll give it a little longer. Then a half-hour goes by, and the retarded guy is still in the game, and you're like, seriously, how long is this going to go on for. So, finally you say something like, "Hey, bud, I think that's enough for you for today." And then his family, who are watching on the sidelines, are like "YOU FUCKING ASSHOLE! HE'S RETARDED! IT'S NOT HIS FAULT, JUST LET HIM HAVE SOME FUN!!"

    So, now you're like, goddammit, this is ridiculous. But you bite your lip and think, OK, fine, I'll play along a little longer. And you do your best to pretend that you're still enjoying the game, but it's devolved into something that barely resembles basketball anymore. No one knows if they should be playing at full speed. Should we try to keep the ball away from the retarded guy? Am I gonna get yelled at if I say something? I'm more stressed and scared at this point... and this used to be so much fun.

    Then the retarded guy takes on a new tactic and every time he gets the ball, he guns it as hard as he can at another player. And everyone is fucking pissed off at this point, but his family is still standing there on the sideline and every time you think someone is going to finally snap and insist that this guy leave the game, you look over at the family and they're just DARING you to say something. One of them even has a knife.

    So, what the fuck can you do? It's gotten to the point where it's impossible to just pretend that you're playing a regular game of basketball when there's a retarded guy running haphazardly around the court just dying to get his hands on the ball so he can chuck it at someone's head. You've tried everything you can to get the family to understand that they've ruined your game, but clearly they do not want to hear it. And now you're really sad because your only choices are to "play" this miserable game, or just leave and go home.

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    1. But I really like playing basketball.

      So what if I'm retarded?

      Delete
    2. Oh goddamnit. The profession of love below is for TDK.

      [shoots basketball]

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    3. [fucking dying]

      This is actually so spot-on.

      Delete
    4. I didn't mean to double dribble. Sometimes I just forget to stop peeing when I get on the court.

      Delete
    5. This brings up an interesting point. On the one hand, the word "retarded" has morphed into a quasi-legitimate adjective that arguably has a rightful place in modern day lexicon. However, moralistically, the point can be justifiably made that...

      /gags on Fruit Roll-up

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    6. In the dark, scary bedroom that is Kinja, TDK is my nightlight. +1, bud.

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    7. That's truly great.

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    8. That really was superb.

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    9. If you had a family member mentally or physically impaired, maybe then you would understand the intense feelings of hurt the the 'R' word inflicts. The level of insensitivity shown by the use of said word is usually only encountered when dealing with slack jawed, mouthbreathing, drooling nitwits

      Then again, I'd throw the retard on the knife,yell "Kinja'd" and run like hell.

      Delete
    10. See, if it wasn't for the balog, there would be no place for this masterpiece.

      You should send this to Nancy Grace, post haste.

      + fucking one

      Delete
    11. This right here is comment faerie nectar, and yet sadly, to be caught here would mean either to die the death or to abjure forever the society of men.

      Delete
  16. I fucking love you, man. Never change.

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  17. On the Islanders wedding post, I had put this joke:

    "We found love in a hopeless place"

    The best part about a Kinja-themed wedding is the cost savings, since it's understood +1's are discouraged.

    -------

    I quickly decided to redact it since I don't want to shit all over the commenting grounds (and I think I might like the changes made today, as I've posted above), and it's also pretty inside baseball-y. I figured it was decent enough to post over here. So here ya go.

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    Replies
    1. +1. Also, glad to see you're back around. I seem to remember you being MIA for a while there.

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  18. I may be suffering from self-delusion, but I feel like I really started making some good comments right when the new kinjtastrophe hit. I'm sad.

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  19. Seeing the comments splayed all over the screen like that reminds of about ten or eleven years ago when I tried a voice chat room on Yahoo. It was just crazy noise and a few intelligible words now that like "PUSSY!" would fly through. It's just all too much.

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